Thank you to Judith Gigliotti and Peter Decherney for joining me on my podcast. Peter is an author, filmmaker and Professor at the University of Pennsylvania where we met when my class had a film and TV panel for our 30th reunion. May 2024 is my 35th reunion at PENN!
Judith took the author photo for my book, Brave-ish, One Breakup, Six Continents and Feeling Fearless After Fifty, and is an incredible artist and photographer. We met because of ceramics and belong to the same art studio, Members Only LA (MOLA).
Listen to our discussion about the Jews in Africa: the Abayudaya in Uganda 🇺🇬 and Beta Israel in Ethiopia 🇪🇹Both Peter and Judith have spent years in Africa filming, photographing and helping.
Listen or watch our interview on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or your favorite podcast platform
READ THE TRANSCRIPT BELOW
Lisa:
Today we’re so lucky to be having a conversation with two remarkable photographers and filmmakers who know so much about the Jews of Africa. So Judith, tell us, what were you doing in Africa?
Judith:
So I got very close with a gentleman who was at the University of Judaism here becoming a rabbi, and he brought his wife and two children to, I was on a board called Jewish and Community Research, and they asked me to meet Gersham and his wife and two kids and get them set up at the University of Judaism. So I did. My sister and I met them, and we took them walking down the Third Street Promenade and he thought everybody was in costumes. They couldn’t believe their eyes. The kids were just in awe.
Lisa:
Where was he from?
Judith:
Bali, Uganda, which is six hours’ drive from Entebbe or Kampala, Ethiopia. People more know Entebbe.
Peter:
I will be driving that road in August.
Judith:
Oh, bad roads. Bad, bad, bad roads.
Anyway, so we got very close with this family. We got them into school, we got them pediatricians, we did everything for them, and then they stayed three years here to become a rabbi with one year in Israel, We went to his graduation before he left. My sister and I felt he can’t just leave. We’re a part of his family. He’s a part of our family. So then we started going to Uganda every year to teach women to start small businesses. I went for 18 years, until COVID, and watched all the kids grow up.
Lisa:
So you basically adopted the Jews of Uganda.
Judith:
Yes. There are two groups in that area. They never have really come together.
Peter:
What makes them different from each other?
Judith:
One is more religious. We had a big temple built, a big shul built, you’ll see it. When people are not able to eat, I thought, oh, what are we building this big temple for, because they had a beautiful little temple that was good enough, but then a lot of people started coming. Also, they know on Shabbat they get free meals so a lot of people come. And it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. And Rabbi Gersham now lives in Kampala but he drives back. Especially if he knows you’re going to be there, he’ll drive back every Friday and then stay for the weekend.
Peter:
He’s now a member of parliament, right?
Judith:
He was. He was a member for parliament and that’s when I went to stump for him, which was fascinating. He was a member of Parliament for two years and then they revoted and he lost and he was, he is so upset. His goal is to be president of Uganda. Having said that, we know who is president and who has been president for 36 years, and he seems like he’s just getting worse all the time. Uganda is one of those countries that I’m not seeing progress, unlike Rwanda, unlike Kenya.
Peter:
I just got back from Kenya.
Judith:
Kenya is different because they have the tourism. They’re in better shape, way better shape. Don’t you think?
Peter:
Definitely.
Judith:
You made a made a movie about the Jews of Africa?
Peter:
Yes. I’m a professor of cinema and media studies at Penn.
Lisa Niver:
And we met for my thirtieth Penn College reunion because many of my classmates took your classes and are still involved, and then I found out that you have a film about Africa. So tell us what your film was, the first one.
Peter:
That’s right. You generously come back and meet with students and mentor them often, which is great.
Lisa Niver:
Thank you for the opportunity.
Peter:
In 2020 with a colleague at Penn, Sosena Solomon, we made a film about the Jewish community in Gondar, Ethiopia. There’s a lot written and films made about Jews, Ethiopians living in Israel, but it was actually hard to find information about the Jews who were still living in Gondar, what was their life like, and so that’s what brought us there and then over a few years led us to make to make a film about it.
The film is really just trying to amplify their stories, and we tell stories about their soccer team, amazing stories, and their circus, which is amazing, about a rabbi who moved to Israel, became a rabbi, and then goes back regularly to still be a rabbi in that community.
The film is on Discovery + and It’s called Dreaming of Jerusalem. But as we showed the film at festivals and synagogues and places, I was surprised by how little people knew about the story. I thought they knew, and if they know anything they know about the airlifts in the 80s and 90s, but not that there’s thousands of years of history before that and there’s still an active community and there’s a lot happening.
And so I went back the last couple of years post-pandemic and I’ve just completed a book of photography and text, and in a brief way, it tells the whole history from biblical times until today, and then it tells stories about people over the last few years, and it’s been a very intense couple of years, the pandemic…
Judith:
How many Jews are in Ethiopia?
Peter:
So there’s dispute, but around 10,000.
Judith:
Oh. That’s a lot.
Lisa Niver:
And how many Jews went in the airlift from Ethiopia to Israel approximately?
Peter:
About 40 to 50 thousand then and probably 50 thousand before and after. There are about 100,000 Ethiopian Jews living in Israel who were born in Ethiopia, about another 50,000 who were born in Israel.
Lisa Niver:
Wow. It’s a huge communiy.
Judith:
One of the major differences is the Ethiopians’ bloodline is Jewish. The Abayudaya, Gersham and his, is not.
Lisa Niver:
In Uganda.
Judith:
In Uganda. And therefore people have said to them, you’re not really Jewish, and he’s been up against that often. He says, I know who I am. I kept saying to him, doesn’t that bother you?
After they’d been here a long time, he and I went out and he was wearing a baseball cap and his yarmulke under the baseball cap. People know he’s from another country, they don’t think he’s a black American. But I said to him, do you see a lot of prejudice here? And he said no. No. Why? Do you see a lot for you? And I said, for me? And he said, yeah, being Jewish. So I was talking about him being black, he was talking about us being Jewish, and for him it was like it didn’t exist. In his country it doesn’t. I’m the outsider in his country, or the mzungu.
Peter:
Right. So the Abayudaya converted 100 years ago and people say maybe they’re not Jewish, but actually, even though the Ethiopian community has thousands of years of Jewish history, people also say they’re not Jewish.
Judith:
They do?
Peter:
Yes. Very controversially, in the 80s and 90s, Jews who had moved from Ethiopia to Israel had to be converted to their own religion.
Judith:
Go through the mikveh and do everything.
Lisa Niver:
And there was a lot of racism in Israel.
Peter:
So hopefully in the film what you see, it starts out with a Torah service. I mean, 30 seconds in I hope you think, these people are really Jewish. They’re wearing kippot and praying.
Actually, 60 seconds in, I think they’re more Jewish than me.
Judith:
Were you raised reform?
Peter:
Conservative.
Judith:
Conservative. I was raised reform, very reformed. My father would say, you don’t have to go to synagogue on Yom Kippur but just don’t go shopping. We belonged to a synagogue but we didn’t go that much. But they say to me, do you know what this means? And they’ll sing a song and they’ll say, do you know what this means? Do you know? Do you know what Purim stands for? Do you know? They observe…they’re kosher, they observe the Shabbos, they really do. They are very devout. They consider themselves Orthodox.
Peter:
The Jews in Gondar left their homes and their farms in villages over the last 20 years and are living in the city. They have very few economic opportunities. They pray every day. They go to classes to learn Hebrew when they’re not praying. They’ve given up everything for their religion.
Judith:
Can they go to a rabbinical school?
Peter:
There is a rabbi from Haifa, Menachem Waldman, who comes and he’s there part of every month. There are hazzan, hazzanim, cantors who are there. The traditional Jewish rabbi-like figures are called Kessim, which is also the word for priest in Amharic.
Lisa Niver:
Judith met this family and became close to them. What inspired you to pick Ethiopia and Ethiopian Jews for your project?
Peter:
A few different things. One is when I was in college I went to a program in Israel and worked alongside some Ethiopians who had recently moved. This is after Operation Moses, before Operation Solomon, and so I’d been fascinated by their story in Israel for a long time. Actually, I was working on another project, another film and learning much more about the history of the community and about the community who’s there now and I couldn’t wait to make the next film and learn more about the Ethiopians, and I was really happy when I could.
Judith:
Did you research other places in Africa where there are Jews?
Peter:
That is the next project and that’s why I’m here to see you.
Judith:
So that’s not just Uganda.
Peter:
I’ll be in South Africa and then Uganda and Zimbabwe in the fall.
Lisa Niver:
Is the next film is multiple locations in Africa or they are separate films?
Peter:
We showed the film and realized that people really were desperate to know more, which caused me to go back and continue to do interviews and take photographs and I have a book now, it’s of photography and history, coming out.
Lisa Niver:
When does it come out?
Peter:
maybe about a year.
Lisa Niver:
Your film is on Discovery Channel and now you’re working on multiple books. It’s so interesting that you both have such a love for the people of Africa and making these projects.
Judith:
My feeling is it either is in your soul or it’s not, and the first time I went to Africa I was on safari with all my kids and I did love it. I loved it, but that’s a whole different thing.
The second, the next time I went was to go to Uganda, which was a completely different show, from beginning to end, but I couldn’t wait to go back, and each time I went there I just wanted to go back there so much and we were so involved. We had taught these women how to make paper beads and then how to make beautiful necklaces. We combined paper beads with metal beads that we traded and they were stunning. And then my sister and I would go sell them here. I would sell them to stores here and then send them the money. And my husband kept saying, why don’t you just give them the money? because without us they really couldn’t do it. There is no getting a job. It’s very hard there.
Peter:
I’ve been going to Kenya for many years and I collaborate with a film school there that’s in a refugee camp by the South Sudan border. The refugee camps is called Kakuma and the film program is called FilmAid Kenya, and I like to bring my students and we have made many films together over the years. I just got back two weeks ago, we were making films about music and politics in the camp. What connects is we’re filmmakers, they’re film students, I have film students, we’re working together on project.
Going to Ethiopia what connects us is we’re Jewish, and the first time I walked in and they started singing the same prayers that I know with the tunes I cried.
Judith:
A friend of mine started a program in Rwanda and she talked about Tikkun olam- To repair the world–There are no Jews in Rwanda, and so she was going to help the children of the genocide. She did the most remarkable job of any place I’ve ever seen. I mean, first of all, Rwanda is an amazing place, but these kids, they have a film school where she is. They have a school. She flew in teachers from Israel and from the States, and they’re producing filmmakers. They’re based out of New York but they’re incredible, and Rwanda is an incredible place.
Lisa Niver:
So it would be great for people to know about these programs. Maybe they want to support the Jews in Uganda or the film school or the Kenya FilmAid. Does it have a website or can people find out more?
Peter:
Yeah. So you can definitely just Google FilmAid Kenya and find out a lot about them. There are many organizations that support the community in Ethiopia. The SSEJ, the Struggle to Save Ethiopian Jewry is the organization that helps support the synagogue, the food program and the health clinic. When I was just there in March they were about to open a new clinic. They had raised funds the year before and it will now have 24-hour care for anyone under 18, which is amazing.
Judith:
We have a new clinic too but…you will see it, the day after we had the grand opening it looked like it had been there for 50 years. I mean, and the architect, whoever he was, you don’t build a big atrium in the center when it pours and have the rooms…you’re just slip and sliding. We decided we wanted to do a pharmacy. Gersham’s daughter went to school to be a pharmacist. Her husband is now here becoming a rabbi with her and their baby.
The young adults there, they can go to school and most of them go to Muslim school because it’s better there. They have a grade school, Hadassah, and then they go to another school, but the Muslim school happens to be a better school. They send their kids away to school. If they’re living in Bali, they’ll send them to Kampala to school. But they graduate with a degree and there’s no jobs. There’s nothing. There’s nothing they can do.
And I’m in love with this family. Gersham just came to town and we spent a day or two together. There’s a rabbi who got him speaking engagements all over the country.
Lisa Niver:
So if people want to help, what’s the best way to help?
Judith:
I don’t know now. I would have to find out. I really can’t tell you because all of the people that I worked with have all grown up, and when they grow up, they move to Kampala and Kampala is a big city.
Lisa Niver:
And that’s six hours away. And you’re going there for your next project?
Peter:
Yes. This summer.
Lisa Niver:
When you come back from Africa we’ll have to chat again because we’ll want a big update. It’s so inspiring to people that you’ve taken so much of your time to help people on another continent, people that maybe get forgotten about.
Judith:
I don’t know whether Peter has gotten this or not, people will say to me, there’s poor people here. I have an uncle who passed away, who I’m sure you knew, Haskell Wexler.
Peter:
Oh my God. Really?
Judith:
Yeah. He was my closest relative, he died at 95. He comes from a different generation. Here’s the difference, we have safety nets here. You may think that they’re terrible, but they have none. If they don’t have money to pay for health care, they’re gone. That’s it. They’ll die by the street. But people made me feel guilty thinking I should be helping more locally.
Peter:
What you’re saying is true. In the refugee camp in Kenya, in Ethiopia, it’s hard to think about what someone could do to make their situation better. There are very, very few options.
Lisa Niver:
I will put in the notes how people can find out more about your film, and Judith is an incredible photographer so we’ll put a link to her website. And when Peter’s film is done and the book is out, you’ll come back and you’ll tell everybody more. Thank you for all of the work you do and the change that you make in the world.
Judith:
You’re welcome. Thank you.
Peter:
Thank you.
Professor Peter Decherney’s website
Penn Global Documentary Institute
Info about Dreaming of Jerusalem
Judith Gigliotti website
LISTEN on APPLE PODCAST: MAKE YOUR OWN MAP
Lisa’s book: Brave-ish, One Breakup, Six Continents and Feeling Fearless After Fifty
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